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WikiProject Japan (Talk)
Founded: 18 March 2006 (18 years, 8 months and 4 days ago) Articles: 95,371 (185 featured)
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Request for comment on whether Ninomaru Palace should be in List of National Treasures of Japan (castles)

I am looking for other opinions in this lengthy discussion. The main question is on whether the National Treasures structures at Ninomaru Palace should be in that list or not. In my view they should not, because according to the [https://kunishitei.bunka.go.jp/bsys/searchlist official database] they are not listed in the castle category but in the residence category and should therefore be in List of National Treasures of Japan (residences) where they are. I don't really see any need to change anything. If Ninomaru is considered particularly noteworthy, perhaps a sentence in the introduction with a link to the residences list would do. bamse (talk) 20:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I think that at least a mention would be good.

There is absolutely no question that Ninomaru Goten is particularly noteworthy. It's considered to be only one of four complete castle palaces remaining in Japan, it contains National Treasure Structures, and it's probably the main reason why the castle is a World Heritage Site, and it's the castle's main attraction. It is the most important part of one of Japan's most important castles.

At any rate, my logic is: 1. Nijo Castle is a castle. 2. Ninomaru Goten is a castle building (keep in mind that the word 'goten' is reserved for castle palaces, as opposed to other types of Japanese palaces) 3. Several buildings of the Ninomaru Goten fall under the National Treasure designation. Therefore it merits at least mention in the article.

I can see the logic of not including it under the main list due to the 'residence' category, but obviously it's quite possible for something to be both a castle building and a residence (the very definition of 'castle' is a place that includes both defensive and residential features--if not, we would be talking about forts).

It would also be good to clarify the article name to (castle towers) or 'castle defensive structures' to make it clear why Ninomaru Palace is excluded from the main list. Mabewa (talk) 01:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

In the two posts here, as opposed to the linked discussion, I don't really see a conflict. It is clear that for some sources and some readers, being a part of the Nijo Castle complex is a good reason for the palace to be included in the article. If the criterion for being part of the main list is that it match the Japanese government definitions, then it seems fair to discuss the palace in text outside of the main list, or in the list with some kind of note explaining that it is not part of the government's list. To make the situation clear, it would be fair to ask for reliable sources that discuss the role of the palace as an element of the castle. Dekimasuよ! 03:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that makes sense. I'm leaning towards mentioning it outside the main list as a compromise. Mabewa (talk) 08:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Sounds reasonably to me. Thank you Dekimasu. With a similar reasoning we might want to add a note (outside the main list) in List of National Treasures of Japan (temples) mentioning that there are temple structures that are listed in List of National Treasures of Japan (residences). bamse (talk) 16:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Suga#Requested move 21 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Suga#Requested move 21 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. --Joy (talk) 16:18, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on the reliability of Japanese sources

There is a discussion about some Japanese musical theatre sources on RSN, any editor who can help please see WP:RSN#Japanese-language sources. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Statism in Shōwa Japan#Requested move 20 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Statism in Shōwa Japan#Requested move 20 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 16:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Kaoli Isshiki

A discussion is going on for Kaoli Isshiki, a soprano from Japan based in France. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:45, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Nippon Ishin no Kai#Requested move 13 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Nippon Ishin no Kai#Requested move 13 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 22:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Sawabe Station

Can someone please source this stub? Bearian (talk) 02:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)